03-30-2012, 04:03 AM #1
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
PvP Guide: Duelling Categorisation
A lot of players tend to categorise lots of duellists these days according to what skills they've ranked. For example, I'm mainly melee oriented, so most ppl call me a 'Warrior'. Another can be considered an Archer, Alchemist, Mage, etc according to their skill builds. There are loads of these callings which often go to the extreme points that one can consider themselves completely prejudiced.
What many ppl don't realise is that, in the long run, everyone will have mastered every skill available in the game and will have to w8 for new ones to come out. Each and every one of u must always remember that Mabinogi is a classless game. It isn't WoW. It isn't Warhammer, it isn't any of those other games with a fkin class. Anything close to comin to class is the Destiny System and that only provides training progress.
One should also remind oneself that everyone has specialisations in not their skill build, but specialisations based on what they do in the game. For example, one guy might specialise in hunting, another in commerce or dungeon runs, etc.
Now that I have cleared away all those annoying long term muddle ups, let me get on to the topic.
A lot of u will wonder about what I'm saying, especially if ur not into duelling as much. But after reading this Categorisation Approach of mine, u will be able to do 3 things easily. 1. U will be able to identify ur opponent's style of play easily. 2. U will be able to implement proper counter measures to their plays. 3. U will be able to sharpen ur current skills and slowly close the holes in ur weaknesses.
Moving onto the quick categorisation process. I've always had proper systematic approach to studying my opponent before, during and after a duel, so that I can win on our next encounters. Before the duel, I would look at my opponent's weapon configurations. During the duel, I would study their style of play and habits, as well as their connection speed and reflexes. After the duel, be it win or lose, I would make my own conclusions on how that person fights.
Analysis would be like this (He tends to rely alot on the bow, he has a lot of flaws in his style, but his speed covers it up for him, he pings alot, his dmg is high so i should be careful, he's good at juggling skills, etc).
See some points here and there? Remember the point of this post of mine is to ensure u fight extremely well. It isn't so that u can have a win streak, but it isn't made so that u will lose either. In the end, it all comes down to whether u use it or not, how well u use it and whether if it fits the opponent.
There r 2 ways to categorise an opponent. In my analysis, it is based on Battle Focus and Battle Style.
Battle Focus is quite an easy way to access. It can come from the opponent's weapon configuration and what skills they use the most. So it refers to which affinity they have for in a fight. For example, my Focus is in Melee, not just in play style or build, but also in Weapon Configuration (I use dual swords and shield n sword together).
Battle Style is the most broad categorisation I've ever made, but it also makes sense in a duel. My systematic approach in this section was inspired by today's fighting sports like Boxing and MMA. Alot of the fighters r categorised according to their style and specialisations. For example, Mike Tyson was an Infighter who was really good at fighting upclose, Muhammad Ali was an Outboxer known for having the fastest hand speed in all of Boxing as to date.
My 'Battle Style' System is alot like modern day sport categorisations but quite broad. I have each of these unique categorisations still under study and each of them r at least 3-5 pgs long in 12 font. Since I can't post em, I'll just summarise em for u guys each of em in 1-2 paragraphs.
There are currently 10 Categorisations to date, along with about 5 more still in R&D in my brain and word. The 10 include: Swarmers, Draggers, Pushers, Binders, Jugglers, Breakers, Outrangers, Tanks, Technicians and Shifters.
The most common style of Melee focused style are the Swarmers. Like the name states, these players swarm their opponents quickly and deal dmg in Close Quarters. Despite the power they boast, Swarmers focus on dealin short and compact attacks to leave lil to no openings.
Key Skills for Swarmers include: WM, Firebolt, Defence and Charge.
Swarmers aren't just limited to the usual Melee combined with Bolt and Shield Magic. They can also couplement their styles with Alchemy and Range (Usually Xbows) to create and exploit openings for them to attack with their STR based attacks. To be a Swarmer, U need to be courageous in ur actions, especially if fighting strong opponents. Courage is needed as u must be willing to take large amounts of dmg despite knowing u will and get past it to set up ur style.
Like Swarmers, most Draggers r melee oriented with some support from other tabs. The end result is the same, both hit with melee, but the methods used r different. Draggers put less emphasis on compact combinations, in fact, they use skills like bolts and other faster yet weaker skills to provoke the opponents into approaching them. Then, they begin their carnage.
Key Skills are: Smash, Counter, AS and Icebolt.
The drawback of Draggers is that, out of all other classes, they are usually the ones prone to large amounts of damage. Draggers tend to boast high power in their main tabs and like to see even bigger numbers from their already high power. Therefore, They will often use weapons that grant skill bonus in Smash and AS like 2 Handers. To be a good Dragger, U need to live off ur instincts. Big moves like smash tend to take a long time to load and are even harder to land. Thus, u need to find ways to trick ur opponent and land ur finishers.
Pushers are in the top 3 most common styles of play in my research. Pushers are Mid-Range dominant. Thus, their strongest skills r in skills with ranges between 600-1500. Pushers tend to focus on utilising the knockdown gauge to the fullest due to their style. Alchemists and Archers have taken quite a liking to this style.
Key Skills include: Wind Blast, the 3 Bolts, Arrow Revolver and Charge.
A Pusher always makes sure they can get an opponent out of their danger zone and at the same time makes sure their opponents are in hitting range. Pushers r naturally experts at disrupting their opponent's rhythms with fast but weak skills like Wind Blast and Icebolt. To be a competant Pusher, one must have extreme concentration. One lil mistake, and ur opponent will penetrate ur danger zone and hit u down.
Binders are unique in da fact that they don't have a particular build focus or distance focus. What matters to em is clean and simple, prevent the opponent from setting up any of their attacks. Binders utilise skills with CC rather than dmg. Binders can always find ways to prevent their target from dealing any sufficient dmg to them and always put them on da defensive.
Key Skills include: Flame Burst, Support Shot and ADV Magic.
A Binder can be considered to be like that of a plug. A stoppage can stop water from flowing out. In short, A Binder's focus is on preventing the opponent from even attacking. Of course no matter how good u r at that, U can't do it all da time no. But a good Binder will find ways to limit the opponent's options and then capitalise on punishing the opponent. A good Binder is an expert at psychological battles. Limiting a player's options can leave the player in despair and give up easily. Binders are just that dangerous.
To all who read, don't try to grab any tennis balls. I'm not talkin about starting a circus to do well with this style. A Juggler is a Combo Master. Once they start to land even 1 clean hit with a skill, it usually leads onto long series of combos, resulting in ur ultimate demise. Jugglers are aggressive in da fact that, they have a wide arsenal of skills that allow em to quickly attack and build up dmg.
Key Skills include: Arrow Revolver, Magic Bolts, Charge, WM and AS.
A master Juggler would continue jugglin his skill cards in his thought bubble endlessly until their opponent is flat out dead. They would also be able to do it flawlessly even in a shitty computer. To be good at Juggling, one must be creative. You don't wanna just use the same skill or short combo over and over again, then be called a Spammer. Any Juggler who is called a spammer, is a fail.
Just as how Jugglers are experts at building up Combos, Breakers r, as their names would imply, experts at reading and then breaking them apart permanently. A Breaker focuses on counter offensive moves. They can go all our aggressive in close range or take a nice lil massage while hanging back at long range to read their opponents then break them up when they try something funny.
Key Skills include: Any skill capable of interrupting.
Breakers are unique in the fact that they use the Shield Magics more than any other stylists. They r also known for using short combos rather than long chains of combos as they take caution into their play, just in case, their opponent has another card to play. In order to be a good breaker, one must exercise caution in all their fights. The greatest weapon a Breaker has over other players r their Memorisations. Memorising an opponent's traits and habits in fight allows them to have a distinct advantage in rematches. A master Breaker is able to even crush a Juggler's combos with ease.
Outrangers rely mostly on Range skills. Their preferred fighting distance is 1800+. Outrangers capitalise in keeping their targets outta their range. Of course they cant spam the same skill over and over again. But Outrangers focus on using mid range skills and long range skills mainly to fight. Long Range being their main dmg source, they use mid range skills to keep their targets at bay and then shoot them away. Outrangers must always focus on dealing dmg as fast as possible
Key Skills Include: Arrow Revolver, Magnum Shot, Magic Bolts and Wind Blast.
Outrangers are often prejudiced upon as spammers if they always stay outta range or use the same skill multiple times. A good Outranger will always use a variety of skills in order to avoid such callings. A spam is only a spam IMO if u use the same 1 or 2 skills over and over again like For example, LB>AR>LB>AR. If u use a variety of spells like this: LB>AR>Firebolt>Icebolt>etc. then it would be more subtle as ur using different spells and at the same time mixing in some slower spells. To be a good Outranger, ur Depth Perception (or Measurement of distance) must be at an extremely high lvl. By knowing whether ur opponent is in range or not does make a key difference in fighting.
I don't think I need to really explain this, the name really speaks for itself. Meaning U need lots and lots of HP as well as lots of Defence and Protection. Of course U can't just be a pussy who hides behind his shell. If ur a Tank, it really is all about taking ur time to kill of ur opponent. But even Tanks need some key cards to play. If ur fighting a melee expert, provided his dmg isnt too high enough to deal too much dmg to u and that he has lower HP then u (By a large margin), then ur ok. But if ur fighting any distance fighters, ur literally fked.
Key Skills include: Defence, Counter, Charge and Evasion.
Just cos ur main function is soaking up dmg after lowering it doesn't mean u should focus on taking a beating. The defensive capabilites r but assurances. Da point of a duel is to take lil to no dmg and finish off ur opponent. Tanks put the most emphasis in gear usage so U need to be rich to consider taking up this style. A Tank exercises patience the most out of all da class, even more than range focused players. Take ur time and rip ur opponents a new one
Technicians... where to begin. I guess Technicians are who u can call skill specialists. Their main objective is to land their signature skill to finish off their targets or land it as much as possible. U can consider a skill to be their signature move if they use it frequently. Technicians don't have any key skills as they can just build whatever skills they want, so long as it helps them land their signature move.
A Technician doesn't use spammable moves like Bolt Magics or other such skills. Even Range types don't use Spammable skills like AR and such. Rather they would use skills like Magnum, Smash, Fireball (Yes I mean Fireball, not Firebolt), Hailstorm and Heat Buster. Technicians are the very few and in fact, I think these types of player have gone extinct in today's modern PvP World. But they are also the most unique of all players cos they don't focus on winning. Rather they focus on bringing out their favourite skills. In short, they are PvP Artists. They bring PvP to life.
Anyone can be a Technician and there is no specific requirement in virtue or skill. But u must always remember that however u use the skill reflects ur inner self. Therefore, ppl could love ur or hate u for ur style of play.
Another gear oriented style of play involves Shifters. A Shifter is a unique type of player who manipulates one's own statistics during battle with the changing of their weapons. Many of you may have noticed that different gears with different statistics or ES boosts or drops allow different performances in battles. The changes are minor in most cases. Shifters take that lil change to a huge scale.
Key Skill focus is dependant on what gears they are relying on.
A Shifter if played right, is near impossible to stall against. They can use a high powering ES to bolster their dmg, raise their survivability rate, or even have an everlasting amount of MP, SP and possibly HP (Though HP I have to study a bit further cos of the Deadly Status). Shifters are also experts at psychological battles like Binders, so it is best to be cautious when fighting them. Again, you do not need to have any particular traits or skill to be a shifter. However, you must have some basic duelling capabilities to take up this style. You're also gunna need some funds so get some gold! >O
Remember all of u. Just cos a player specialises in one style doesn't mean he is oblivious to other styles in be it knowledge or play. Also, just cos I have made these categorisations doesn't mean u have to agree, or follow it. This is from my 2 yrs of pvp study. These are from my observations in which revealed that ppl fall into 1 or more of these styles instinctively.
Learn well, and if u can use these to further enhance ur performance and knowledge, then I will be happy. All I wish from all of u is to have fun in PvP and do ur very best in it to not leave any regrets.
Last edited by TheWhiteGale; 03-30-2012 at 11:40 PM.
03-30-2012, 12:21 PM #2
I love this so much you have no idea ;-;!
This explains and divides pvp categories so well~
I remember a few days ago when someone pvped a pro and he lost and went 'OMG YOU CHEATED YOU BOLT SPAMMER!!111!!1' when in fact he didn't spam at all; it was all just apart of a long combo that the other guy failed to break.Drawing commissions are open- price sheet
03-30-2012, 01:30 PM #3
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, North America, Northern Hemisphere, Earth, Milkey Way...etc.
Whoa...now that's called hard work. Very nice, compiling all of this.
If you don't mind me pointing something out, though, some of them seems to overlap with each other - specifically, "Breakers" and "Binders" since they both sound like they're aiming to disrupt an opponent's combos, and "Pushers" and "Outrangers" since these two are both focused on keeping opponents at a distance, and the only difference seems to be the distance involved. Can you expand on the differences between them?
03-30-2012, 01:44 PM #4
03-30-2012, 03:09 PM #5
Nice PvP guide for those who will use it. No offense, and I know this is an informal topic, but the use of U and any shorthand version of a word makes for a rather short read. People tend to skip and ignore those kinds of wordings and posts mainly because it is appalling in the world of grammar. ( Even if mine is horrid)
03-30-2012, 06:31 PM #6
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- Mar 2012
Thank you all of you for your supports. ^^ Now allow me to answer some questions.
The difference between a Binder and a Breaker is that, Binders are like those guys in society who prevent you from showing of your true skills. Remember they are psychological experts. Therefore, in a way, they are 'physical' interrogators. You get smacked around silly and they prevent you from bringing out something flashy, something big. You get frustrated because now you're forced into just 1 or 2 types of options. And if you used that, it's all over cos you've just thrown out your chance. You've lost your cool and just gambled away a chance to bring out what is within you. Breakers are different. Breakers let you do your thing. Once you've done your thing, if you do it again, they will have a counter combo ready for it. They will break it completely, and thus, you are restricted to using a different combo. After using that next combo, BAM! They break that too if you use it again. So if I were to explain it in real life terms, Binders prevent you from ever showing your stuff. Breakers just shatter all your hopes and dreams by spitting on them after you show it. I really should upload some examples on YouTube so that ppl can betr understand but that will only happen if you cannot understand anything I've said still. I hope this helps you enough.
As for Pushers and Outrangers. I've said it properly on the top but I'll mention it again I guess. A Pusher is Mid-Range dominant. That means, they are at their most effective when fighting at a distance. But of course, they are at an extremely vulnerable situation cos of their dominant range. Let us briefly discuss the Distance in battles first. Most ppl tend to be either Close-Ranged or Long-Ranged Specialists. To them, Mid-Range is their support distance. They use Mid-Range Skills to disrupt their opponents first. After that, for a Close-Ranged fighter, they penetrate their target's defences and bring down the hammer. Long-Ranged guys, they will blow you away. Since Long-Range fighters are at their most vulnerable when they attack (Since if the opponent charges at you, you can't knock em away), they use Mid-Range skills to stop their opponents dead in their tracks, then bring down their volleys of arrows. Pushers don't have anything as strong. They can still have access to these, but they won't be as strong. Therefore, they can't scare away their opponents.
Pushers must always keep their opponents away from them and at the same time make sure they are in hitting radius. Another particular weakness the Pushers have is that, they are extremely vulnerable when they are forced on the defensive. Being Mid-Range dominant, they have the biggest issue when knocked down. Melee players and Range players all have the ability to load their respective skills and unleash their effects as soon as they get up or when the opponent attacks you. Mid-Range players don't have any of that with the exception of magic shields. If they've incooperated alchemy, they can load WB or LD, but even then, the drawbacks r clear. WB's range is too short and can be evaded. If the opponent is long-ranged, it's of no use. If they are close-range specialists, they can either hit you with a Lightning/IceBolt to cancel your skill and approach you, or just time Evasion and attack you after dodging. LD is another issue. Even at rank 1, It still takes at least 2 secs to load. Also, when the skill starts to take effect, the opponent can hit you to cancel it, resulting in a waste of crystal. Not to mention, LD is one of the many Taboo skills in some servers such as Alexina (alongside FH, Blizzard, FS, potting, spamming, etc). Thus, to be a good Pusher, one must augment some key skills with their Mid-Range skills. Charge, Thunder and Counter are often commonly employed side skills.
Outrangers are quite different from Pushers. Pushers need to constantly keep their opponents at bay and make sure they don't lose sight of them. Outrangers just push their targets slightly, then unleash their long range skills to knock em away. Outrangers don't have to always keep their opponents within their hitting range like Pushers do. Outrangers have more versatility in terms of skill access and range coverage. Also, they can keep most opponents at bay with just range skills alone, especially if they are using long range upgraded weapons like HLB or Wing Bow. To Outrangers, they are hunting down a monster from afar and being intangible in a way cos of this. Outrangers can also recover mentally cos of this and start on thinking up their next move. The main drawback for an Outranger is the same as any other Rangers, the Aim Meter. You still have a chance to miss your attack and be prone to any counter offensive. Therefore, you have to be extremely cautious and precise. Also, Outrangers have to be cautious of their surroundings since they can be used against them.
As all of you may have noticed, each Style has major drawbacks and I forgot to mention it to you guys about it. So everyone is categorised with 2 styles: A Primary Style and Auxiliary Style.
So in PvP, my categorisation is this: Swarmer/Breaker.
I'm a melee oriented player as mentioned before and My main talent lies in the speed of my memorisation. Once I see a combo, I have a counter combo lying in w8. I can also read my opponent's rhythm and match it to theirs then break them up all together as well. Every one of my rivals are like this as well. Depending on their style, weapon configurations and some other situational factors, I can quickly theorise my opponent's play style, then implement the right methods to defeat them.
I hope this answered not just Akira's question, but all of your questions.
I'm sorry about shortened words. It's become a habit since I played on computers. I'm technically knowledgeable in grammar, but it's faster to type like that. But everytime I make a forum, I remind myself halfway "You're writing a forum, not chatting with your buds! >O". But whenever I think that, I'm nearly done and I need to finalise what I was about to type, and if I worry about it, I might forget what I was going to type you know. So I just let it slip. Sorry ^^;;.
03-30-2012, 09:28 PM #7
- Join Date
- Apr 2011
- Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, North America, Northern Hemisphere, Earth, Milkey Way...etc.
Yeah okay, I think I get now. Outrangers stay as far as possible, and when an enemy enters their attack range they either go BAM straight off, or stun them and then go BAM (with a Magnum Shot or Arrow revolver?). Pusher keeps the opponent slightly away but also keeps the opponent in hitting range - so it's more like maintaining a specific distance rather than sniping from afar.
I guess I get the difference between Breaker and Binder too, but that one was more because I thought it the way to limit the opponent was to break their combos. I can see where you're making the distinction now, but I didn't think Mabinogi really has a way to limit the opponent, other keeping the enemy in a specific surrounding like a forest.
03-30-2012, 11:30 PM #8
- Join Date
- Mar 2012
As for the difference between the Binder and Breaker, well in this case specifically the Binder. It's true that you can't really prevent them from retaliating forever unless your connection is godly. But it is still possible. Also, even if they somehow managed to break out of your Binds, you can still find ways to put them on the defensive again. Remember, the key skills of a Binder is either Support Shot or Flame Burst. The unique thing about the 2 skills are that, they don't add onto the Knockdown Gauge. Therefore, you can spam your opponent with either skill. However, doing such a thing in PvP is taboo, and you ain't gunna gain any respect from other duellists. Try experimenting with the skills. Support Shot is applicable in combinations so maybe say you knock away an opponent on your 3rd shot normally. Use Support Shot on them for the 3rd, keep them in the same spot, and time your 4th shot to prevent them from moving. Then add another Support Shot after awhile.
Flame Burst is also applicable for Binding. Just combine it in a combo with some other skills like WC, Charge, Bolt Magics and some other stuff.
Last edited by TheWhiteGale; 03-30-2012 at 11:48 PM.
04-02-2012, 11:48 PM #9
It needs some serious proofreading. Your grammar and spelling are absolutely atrocious.
04-03-2012, 01:21 AM #10
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- Mar 2012